Time Travel

[Desert Warrior]

This one is fun to talk about. Everybody knows that it is not possible right now, so this debate is about different paradoxes that have been thought up about time traveling: Predestination Paradox, Ontological Paradox, and Grandfather Paradox. Which one do you think is more likely?

If you don't know what these two things are, let me explain.

The Predestination Paradox is when a time traveller is caught in a loop of events that "predestines" him or her to travel back in time. Because of the possibility of influencing the past while time traveling, one way of explaining why history does not change is by saying that whatever has happened was meant to happen. A time traveller attempting to alter the past in this model, intentionally or not, would only be fulfilling his role in creating history as we know it, not changing it. Effectively, it means this: the time traveller is in the past, which means he/she was in the past before. Therefore, his/her presence is vital to the future, and he/she does something that causes the future to happen the way it happened. It is very closely related to the ontological paradox and usually occurs at the same time.

The Ontological Paradox is one way of explaining why history does not change is by saying that whatever has happened was meant to happen. A time traveler attempting to alter the past in this model, intentionally or not, would only be fulfilling his role in creating history, not changing it. However, a scenario can occur where items or information are passed from the future to the past, which then become the same items or information that are subsequently passed back. This not only creates a loop, but a situation where these items have no discernible origin. Physical items are even more problematic than pieces of information, since they should ordinarily age and increase in entropy according to the Second law of thermodynamics. But if they age by any nonzero amount at each cycle, they cannot be the same item to be sent back in time, creating a contradiction unless it is a reproduced item such as a seed, spore, etc. The paradox raises the ontological questions of where, when and by whom the items were created or the information derived. Time loop logic operates on similar principles, sending the solutions to computation problems back in time to be checked for correctness without ever being computed "originally."

The Grandfather Paradox is best given an example: suppose a man traveled back in time and killed his biological grandfather before the latter met the traveller's grandmother. As a result, one of the traveller's parents (and by extension, the traveller himself) would never have been conceived. This would imply that he could not have travelled back in time after all, which in turn implies the grandfather would still be alive, and the traveller would have been conceived, allowing him to travel back in time and kill his grandfather. Thus each possibility seems to imply its own negation, a type of logical paradox.

The grandfather paradox has been used to argue that backwards time travel must be impossible. However, a number of possible ways of avoiding the paradox have been proposed, such as the idea that the timeline is fixed and unchangeable, or the idea that the time traveler will end up in a parallel timeline, while the timeline in which the traveler was born remains independent.

[Mythril Roxas]

In my opinon, time travel is most likely imposssible....or at least for us humans. Only God could "time travel", but he doesn't exist in the realm of matter, so the only other deity that could hold such a godly power as time warp would be the Lucifer. Does he have his godly powers here in the realm of matter? Or have they been stripped away from his imperfcet body? That I do not know.

[Chocobo Dyl]

Okay I came prepared with no looked up facts whatsoever.

So,first of all you say that this cannot be acheived,I in a way disagree.
Ever since I learned more about the 9/11 bombings I've always wondered one thing,there was a guy who said that it would happen,he said this before the bombings,is it possible that this man as if he had a deformity, had travelled in time and saw this(If you watched the first season of Heroes you'll know what I mean.) and then told the goverment.

When I say deformity I mean a gift in a way.I remember reading about a person that could remember events,the days they happened and he was also a human calender.People tested him and asked things like "On what day will October the 12th 2010 be?" He would think for two seconds and answer correctly.I can give more examples but I can't be bothered.

[Mythril Roxas]

Originally Posted by Chocobo Dyl

Okay I came prepared with no looked up facts whatsoever.

So,first of all you say that this cannot be acheived,I in a way disagree.
Ever since I learned more about the 9/11 bombings I've always wondered one thing,there was a guy who said that it would happen,he said this before the bombings,is it possible that this man as if he had a deformity, had travelled in time and saw this(If you watched the first season of Heroes you'll know what I mean.) and then told the goverment.

When I say deformity I mean a gift in a way.I remember reading about a person that could remember events,the days they happened and he was also a human calender.People tested him and asked things like "On what day will October the 12th 2010 be?" He would think for two seconds and answer correctly.I can give more examples but I can't be bothered.

Interesting thing about 9/11. Tell me the guys name please. But along with that, there are a lot of signs that 9/11 was coming, and it was planned by our own government. Heres a picture from a board game about government conspiracy....a little dumb, but it predicts the Pentagon attack and the attack on the twin towers in 1996.

Heres a site with more info on the board game. Its pretty kreepy.....if it all continues to occur in order.
GrazingSheep.com - Illuminati: What Do They Know?

[Desert Warrior]

there was a guy who said that it would happen,he said this before the bombings,is it possible that this man as if he had a deformity, had travelled in time and saw this and then told the goverment.

Well that could also be an example of him being part of the history that he tried to stop, like in an Ontological Paradox. Say he did see this and he warned the government. Then, a terrorist might have somehow heard what this man said. Then he could have gone to wherever 9/11 was planned, and tell the other terrorists what he heard. In that case, the terrorists would then plan 9/11 knowing that it would work, and then go through with it. That way, the original person would have helped cause 9/11.

Another example would be somebody trying to stop President Lincon's assasination. He could go and tell the guards to guard the entrance to Lincon's booth, because somebody could easily sneak in. John Wilkes Booth hears this, and then goes to kill President Lincon because he knows how easy it was to get in.

(If you watched the first season of Heroes you'll know what I mean.)

I like Heroes, which brings up another example. When Hiro Nakamura travels back in time to feudal Japan, he meets his hero, Takezo Kensei. But as it turns out, Hiro himself becomes Takezo Kensei, and has the stories that he heard as a child to be told and become legend.

[worbs]

i don't know really. the idea of traviling in time is somewhat wierd. however i would like to if i could

[Mythril Roxas]

Originally Posted by Desert Warrior

Well that could also be an example of him being part of the history that he tried to stop, like in an Ontological Paradox. Say he did see this and he warned the government. Then, a terrorist might have somehow heard what this man said. Then he could have gone to wherever 9/11 was planned, and tell the other terrorists what he heard. In that case, the terrorists would then plan 9/11 knowing that it would work, and then go through with it. That way, the original person would have helped cause 9/11.

Another example would be somebody trying to stop President Lincon's assasination. He could go and tell the guards to guard the entrance to Lincon's booth, because somebody could easily sneak in. John Wilkes Booth hears this, and then goes to kill President Lincon because he knows how easy it was to get in.



I like Heroes, which brings up another example. When Hiro Nakamura travels back in time to feudal Japan, he meets his hero, Takezo Kensei. But as it turns out, Hiro himself becomes Takezo Kensei, and has the stories that he heard as a child to be told and become legend.

If time travel is real, this is what it would be like. Your absolutely right Desert WArrior. You see, when applying the unthinkable to normal life you have to consider a lot of real life to occur. Life is ugly.

[Chocobo Dyl]

Far too spammy for my liking,I mean this is a bloody debate not a chat room (sorry bout that but you have to know.) I didn't watch season 2 of Heroes sorry but I do remember seing when The Japenese dude hereo thing person is actually just a lazy idiot.

However if somebody heard about the bombings and told the bombers then yes that would happen you are right,I guess the heart of this debate is really whether our lives are already planned for us or whether we make our lives as they are.Sorry I cannot remember who the guys name is and also I must make the point that I am English so I don't know too much about it.

[Desert Warrior]

Hey, I like Hiro.

And yeah, it does make you wonder if we really do have control over our destinies or fate or whatever you want to call it. I honestly don't think we do, because in the end, we did what we were supposed to do in our lives.

[Chocobo Dyl]

Sorry to cause offense but I did not mean Hiro I meant the guy that was supposed to be a hero but really Hiro became the Hero.

Destiny is a touchy subject,I personally don't know what to beleive.